Success Redefined - An Interview with Jenny Garrett

Jenny Garrett OBE is an Award-Winning Career Coach, Leadership Trainer, Speaker & Author. She works with individuals and organisations, supporting them to achieve career and life changing results, using a unique combination of skills around gender balance, leadership, inclusion and self-improvement to inspire and empower. She empowers working women, particularly female breadwinners, through her book Rocking Your Role. She provides talks on Inclusive Leadership, Race and Allyship, and she created the first-ever Diverse Executive Coach Directory, which shines a light on coaches from Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic heritage working at the most senior level in the UK. Her latest book Equality vs Equity, tackles issues of race in the workplace.

Jenny was awarded an OBE in the Queen’s New Year Honours 2021 for services to Entrepreneurship and Women in Business and was awarded the highest honorary award from the Institute of Leadership and Management ‘Companion’ for advancing the practice of leadership and management for public benefit.

When you were a child, did you have any idea of what you wanted to be when you grew up?

Yes, I wanted to be a ballerina at one point, then when I was in secondary school, I wanted to be a fashion designer. When I left school, after completing my A levels, I did want to go to art school but at the time I couldn't get a grant and financially, without a grant, I wasn't going to be able to afford to go to university, so that's when I entered the world of work.

Growing up, did you have an idea of what success was?

That's a really interesting question. My mum was a teen mum and a single parent so I think success was me not getting pregnant as a teenager and just holding down a steady job, where I eventually got a pension. I think that's what success was back then. So I think I surpassed that and then I had to set my sights on what I decided success was. I think I'm a very driven person, so I was always challenging myself, always pushing myself to see what else there could be for me.

What's your definition of success now?

I’m definitely driven around work, I like work and it’s a major part of my life. I heard a saying that was about enjoying what you do and the people that you do it with and I think that's success to me. Also integral to success for me is making a difference through the work I do, so that it really does fulfil my ‘why’ in life.

Then there's a whole other aspect of my life, which is that I couldn't enjoy the work I do if I didn't have someone to talk to about my work and my family around me to celebrate my successes. So it's also having those people around you who really care, who really celebrate with you and are also there for when things don't go so well.

What would you say is your biggest passion, either in your work or your life in general?

It's all about helping people really. It's about how I can help people to live their best life and empower people to look beyond what they thought was possible for them and achieve even more. Fairness is a big passion of mine as well. So how can I help the world be a fairer place and a place where people really are empowered to go beyond what they thought was possible for them, those are real motivators for me.

What's been your proudest moment and did that make you feel successful?

I think pride for me is in other people's pride in me, that I've made the people closest to me proud. So my mum was super proud that I got an OBE. Seeing her beaming when I received my OBE and then we got to go to Buckingham Palace, that made me so happy, to see her happy. I also have a social enterprise called Rocking Ur Teens and I really created that because at the time my daughter was struggling with all of the influences of social media, struggling with secondary school and I saw her challenges and wanted to do something to support her and then all girls really. Now my daughter talks about that really proudly and that makes me really happy, that she's proud of me for creating Rocking Ur Teens. So there are lots of proud moments, but I think when I see myself through the eyes of those I really love and they're proud of me, I feel really happy.

What's been your biggest challenge when it comes to trying to achieve success?

There's lots of challenges. I think an ongoing challenge for me has always been work life balance. I talk about how important the people I love are but then don’t really spend enough time with them because I'm working so hard. Business doesn't stop, when you run your own business and it’s really connected with your ‘why’, that doesn't switch off at five o'clock. You can have light bulb moments at midnight, or while you’re having breakfast or on the weekend, so I can say that work, at times, has been all-consuming and something that I've constantly had to balance.

Another challenge, as a woman of colour, has been times when I feel I've been underestimated or pigeonholed in my work, and I've had to really fight those stereotypes about who I am and the work I do. Also, as a woman, going into different spaces, whether that's a networking event, whether it's a meeting and often I felt that people make judgments about me.  I've had to really think about the way I am or the way I show up and try and cut through stereotypes in the way I've come across. Sometimes I’ve had to step into rooms where perhaps I'm not so welcome and keep showing up regardless and thinking, actually, I deserve to be here and I've got something to offer in this space.

And what's your driver to keep showing up in in those kinds of situations?

It’s knowing that someone will benefit from me being there or I will reach the audience that needs to hear my message from me being there. It can be quite exhausting, and you have to be quite resilient to keep going.

Do you have any advice for dealing with making mistakes or failing, how have you dealt with setbacks?

I think there's a number of ways. One of the first things is I do is allow myself to be cheesed off! If I don't win a piece of work or something doesn't go quite right, I say to myself, “How long are you going to be cheesed off about this? Are you giving yourself an hour, a day?” So I do allow myself to feel my feelings because I think that's okay to do.

The next thing is that I definitely see everything as learning. I’ve realised that the longer you live, you appreciate how lucky you are to be alive and you realise that every single thing helps you with the next thing. So if I don't do something well, I look at what I can learn for the next time. It's not always about the winning, it's about the experience, and it's about showing up and showing people who you are. There are many times when I either haven't won business or didn't get the job and then people have come back to me later because they’ve remembered me. So I see everything as an opportunity to show up, to show people who I am and to give them an opportunity to come back to me. Every opportunity gives you a new skill, a new bit of learning that you're adding on top of what you've already got and it all builds up, so never think anything's wasted.

What do you think is the biggest challenge facing women in the workplace when it comes to success?

There are many but one of the biggest challenges facing us is the thinking that the gender issue is solved, it's not. You can put one woman in the boardroom but that’s not enough. What if she leaves and there isn't a pipeline of women coming through? There hasn't been enough inclusion created in organisations so these environments are welcoming for women and they don't get the best out of us, so we're enduring the roles, rather than thriving in them.

I think we also haven't done enough in the workplace to create flexibility for everyone. For example, if a woman decides to work part-time, quite often she's marginalised and her career stagnates. Actually, if we offered every job as an opportunity that anyone can go for and then when you've got the job, you can let us know whether you want it to be part-time, what a difference that would make for women's careers, and everyone's careers because lots of men want to be part-time and flexible too. So those are a couple of the biggest challenges and obstacles, but there are so many.

And how do you feel about the phrase having it all? What does that mean to you?

I think for a while I've realised, we can have it all, but not all at the same time. I think that there are times when you dedicate time to family and other times when you dedicate time to work and it's a juggling act. I think you have to decide what “all” is to you as it's different for different people.

My daughter's at university now, I'm an empty nester, and I have an opportunity to see things and do things in ways that I didn't before. I remember working on a contract and saying I'm not travelling at the moment, my daughter's doing her GCSEs and this is just how it was, I needed to be there. So I think that you can have it all but not all at once and you have to make decisions and choices around that and often women have to make more of those choices.

How does happiness play a part in success for you?

For me, it's critical. I couldn't treat anything as a success if I wasn't happy. It's integral. You have to be happy to be successful. I know some people are waiting to be happy. They're saying I'm going to stick this out to get enough money and then to go and live my happy life but we don't know how long we're going to be around for. I think you deserve to be happy now. You don't have to be happy every minute of every day but there has to be happiness in your days.

How does wellbeing play a part in your definition of success?

I think wellbeing is crucial to success. If you don't focus on your well being then you're cutting short your ability to be successful. We need to check in on ourselves regularly on how we're doing and how we're feeling. Am I hydrated? Have I eaten? Have I taken some exercise? Have I told someone I love them? Have I had a physical connection with someone today? Or have I even just given myself a bit of self-love? I think we can miss that, we can forget that we're a physical being and that we breathe, we move, we make connections with other people and these are so important for us on a daily basis.

How important has relationship building been in your career?

It’s everything, it's probably the number one. You have to be good at what you do but success comes through other people. It’s other people recommending you, other people introducing you to more people, those relationships, that golden nugget of knowledge that someone shares with you, that invitation to an event that you wouldn't have been able to go to - those relationships are very important. I think it's also about having those relationships where you give, without expecting anything in return. That brings me a lot of joy and happiness when I think I've been able to give something that for has made a difference in someone’s life.

Who has helped or influenced you most along your career journey?

Well, it's really difficult because I don't want to take away from anyone, there are so many people who have helped me on my journey. But I think I always go back to my grandmother, my mum and my daughter. Three major women in my life. My grandmother left St. Lucia, to come to England in the first place, she took that leap of faith with my granddad and I wouldn't be in this country without her. My mum who always told me I could do anything I want to do, and also became a teacher, when I was a teenager, which showed me that I could get a degree and I could have bigger aspirations for myself. Then my daughter, who's a huge inspiration, and a real driving force for me, because when I had her, I realised I’m a role model now and if I don't step out of my comfort zone, she's not going to. So all three of them have had a major impact in my life and continue to do so.

What's your biggest goal for this year?

I have two. The first isn’t a work one but I think the problem with women is we never have hobbies, it's either work or family or some kind of giving or caring in some way. So for me it's to reconnect with the things I really love. I've always loved art and I've been going out of my way to visit all of the wonderful immersive art exhibitions they have in in London and just reconnecting with things that give me joy outside of work. Aside from that, I wrote my book, which came out in February so I want to really help as many people as possible to benefit from understanding what equity is versus equality and how to create an inclusive environment.

If you could give your 15 year old self some advice, what would it be?

I'm trying to remember what I was like at 15 but I live by this quote, which is no one is you and that is your power. I think my advice would be to know that deeply that no one is you and that's powerful. You’re unique and you should really celebrate what makes you different. When you're 15 you're trying to fit in. I wanted to be like the majority of my friends and what made me different I tried to dial down. I’d also say create your own dreams for yourself. Don't be limited by others imagination for what you’re capable of.

If you had to share one “secret to success”, what would it be?

Help other people and give without expecting to gain in return. Also be patient. Patience and perseverance will get you far.

If you’d like to find out more about Jenny’s work please visit her website at Home Page - Jenny Garrett Global or connect with her on LinkedIn.