Success Redefined - An Interview with Marion Ellis
Marion Ellis is a chartered surveyor with over 20 years experience in the residential property sector. She is now also a coach and mentor, founding Love Surveying, which offers the support, tools, and structure to other surveyors, that she wishes she'd had access to during her career in corporate, SME environments and now running her own business. She offers support through her Facebook group, The Surveyor Hub Community, where she helps others to create their own version of success and with her podcast, The Surveyor Hub Podcast. She also runs a 12-month “Love Surveying Mastermind” programme, helping small businesses do work they love, while getting paid for it at the same time. She has a passion for making an impact and helping others do the same. Here she shares her story with us.
When you were a child, did you know what you wanted to be when you grew up?
No and I worried about it a lot. Anything that I did want to be was based on somebody I had seen. I remember I wanted to be a teacher because I had a favourite teacher, my Auntie worked in an office and so I wanted to work in an office. More than a job specifically though, I wanted to be able to do the things that they were doing, it was about being independent and confident, it seemed like a huge gap compared to where I was.
Do you remember thinking what success meant growing up?
I think it was about superficial things back then. I had a very poor background and upbringing and so I think success was the visual things that money could buy. Success to me was also confidence and that knowing and grounding of who you are, which meant that you could do anything. That inner confidence was something I think I craved. This was, of course pre-internet days, so we only saw things in books or what you saw on the tv, we didn’t have many visible role models around us. Now I’m a big believer in possibilities, knowing something is possible, but back then I just didn’t, and I didn't have anyone to encourage me or inspire me either.
What is your definition of success now?
It's funny, as you get older, and I think particularly as a postmenopausal woman, success is the meaningful things, doing meaningful work, with people I like, that make me feel good and who pay me what I am worth. However you define it, on days when I’m not feeling good about myself, success is about money. It's that measure of income and what that gives you. Income affords you to go and do things. I also think education is really, really key and from that you’re able to earn money. I wouldn’t have been able to transform my life in terms of the career I’ve got now, if I hadn’t had that education. Some days I feel successful, some days I don't but I think so long as I feel I've got the ability to go out and do what I need to do, then that's success for me.
What's been your biggest challenge when it comes to the path to success?
I think what I didn't know then, but I do now, is my ADHD. But you don't know what you don't know, and I think most of my life I felt like I've been walking through treacle, but that's also developed my resilience too. Had I not had an ADHD diagnosis, I'd have been giving you a list of challenges and barriers in terms of working with men, lack of opportunities, my economic background, all sorts of different things, and it's not that those things are aren’t true, it's not the whole picture. ADHD is different for everyone, for me rejection syndrome dysphoria has been the hardest to come to terms with and being compassionate with myself about it. I was diagnosed aged 47 a year ago with ADHD and dyslexia and I got to that point after being coached, training to be a coach, menopause and HRT and being left with some things being a challenge. Like peeling back, the layers of my life and gaining a better understanding as I’ve matured. It’s still quite new to me and I’m getting to grips with it, it is not a superpower, parts of it are truly horrid. But it has contributed to my successes too.
What's been the best career decision you've ever made?
Leaving my corporate job five years ago. I knew at some point I would leave because I'd outgrown it but the financial security being in a corporate job gave me and also a sense of identity, meant that unless something drastic happened, I wouldn't have had the confidence to leave. Once I did, that's when my network and friends picked me up and I found my way again. I'd always had that motivation, but never known which way to go with it, which is in part ADHD and part not having those life role models, mentors or guidance.
What do you think is the biggest challenge facing women in the workplace when it comes to success?
Oh, there's a question. I'd say it's do I stay and how do I make this work, or do I go and if so when and what will I do instead? When you work for a business, no one really talks about what it's like to work for yourself and vice versa; if they do it’s usually negative. We’ve heard a lot recently about senior women at the top stepping down, it’s perceived as a failure. The woman failed. But who decided it was the right way to work the way we do? The rules we have and our ways of working, like most things, were designed for and by men. It might not feel like it at the time, and it didn’t for me, but personal, I think women are making smart decisions which are right for them. Why shouldn’t we put ourselves and our families first? Many men in toxic male environments would like to do the same. We can make smart decisions to stay and smart decisions to leave. Either one just needs to look attractive and welcoming enough, and if it’s not, then that’s a good place to start.
How do you feel about the phrase “having it all” what does that mean to you?
I guess initially it just feels quite materialistic but I don't know anybody who ever feels they’ve got it all. And so I don't strive for that. I just strive to enjoy my work and make sure I've got security.
How does well-being play a part in your definition of success?
Without being well, you can't be your best. I think that's something that I've learned through going through the menopause and understanding my ADHD. I know if I don't start the day right it's not going to be a good day, so I think it's absolutely fundamental. Am I any good at it? Not always! One of the hardest things is just giving ourselves permission to look after ourselves, seeing ourselves as a battery that needs recharging. And also recognising there's lots of different types of well-being, it's physical, emotional and mental and there are lots of different ways we can support ourselves.
How important has relationship building been in your career?
Very important, but it's something that I recognise I struggled with now, because of my ADHD. For me relationships can be, out of sight, out of mind. So, I can have a friendship or a business relationship where if it's not on my radar, I forget about it. But then six months later, I'll pick up the phone to a friend and they're surprised but I'm just where I left off. I've recognised that it's been really hard over the years. I also realise though that I don't need lots of friends. I don't have a very big circle of friends at all but the ones I do, meaningful. I heard the saying people come into your life for a season, a reason or a lifetime and that has given me perspective.
Who are your role models for success?
Again it comes back to what success is. There are different people out there I see who are financially successful or have great relationships but other people that inspire me are the brave ones that make a stand. Someone who inspires me at the moment is a lady called Gill Kernick and she's done an awful lot around what's happening with Grenfell. And also, happy people can be infectious.
If you could change one thing in the world in the next 10 years, what would it be?
I think it's got to be political change, for the good. Whether it’s the war in Ukraine, or who's in charge, we've had over 20 housing ministers in as many years, and so I think political change is key. What I'd hoped would come out of COVID is this move to people, planet, profit and putting people first. I don't see that anywhere in our government or the property and construction sectors. For example, the incident of the little boy who died from damp inhalation, we look at it as a process of who did what, where and when. We need to start with how do you help this family live in that property and it won’t always be the same because as humans we are all different. We don't teach people how to live in or maintain properties, just as we don't teach kids how to cook or sew like we used to. The change has got to start politically. I'm not sure I’ll see that in my lifetime though, let alone in 10 years.
If you could give your 15 year old self some advice, what would it be?
I think I’d just give her a big hug. I don't think I have any words of wisdom for a fifteen year old. What I know now, compared to what I knew then, it was a different world and I didn't have the understanding of what was possible then, to even think about how my life would pan out. So yes, I’d just give her a big hug.
If you had to share one “secret to success” what would it be?
This is where I'd like to say something really witty but I don’t there is one silver bullet. But one quote that has stood me in good stead, and I use it most days is quote by a tennis player back in the 70s called Arthur Ashe, and he said “Start where you are, use what you have, do what you can.” You've got everything you need, just to get started, even if you don't have all the answers, so just start. It doesn't have to be pretty. I work to “Functional. Not too embarrassing” and you can get away with a lot with that but everybody has somewhere they can start. And the other thing is, share the journey. When you open up, and I think that's really what I've done a lot of over the past few years, when you share a bit of that vulnerability and open up, then opportunity comes up in different ways and you learn things about yourself and others.
If you’d like to find out more about Marion’s work please visit her website at Love Surveying or connect with her on LinkedIn.